CLICK FOR GEORGE'S MESSAGE
"Jesus Chriiist will be the kinnng of God's Kingdom!"
I don't know about you people, but I am in love with this George Pappas video! I can't get enough of it! In fact, I've got it so bad that I've been singing George's ditty at home, at dinner, in the park and on the phone! I'm seriously hooked! So what I've been thinking is this, I would LOVE it if you people out there sent me your own interpretations of George's bold statement!
I don't care if it's you, or your grandmother, or a parrot or a freakin' See-n-Say! Just send me your tribute to George's video clip and I'll post it on the site!
I dream of having the largest library of video clips, an ultimate shrine to George Pappas and his video message to the planet earth!
Send them to me! There is not cut off date. No time limit! No limitations what so ever! I just want your participation in what I predict will be the next "Where's the Beef," "That's Hot," or "Jesus is my Homeboy."
Email it directly to me at firstname.lastname@example.org
I'll be waiting, impatiently.
Subject: Hi Bob
Hey I just wanted to thank you for adding that George Pappas link to your hate mail. What a fucking riot that is. Did you go there yourself?I did and had the laugh of a lifetime, especially on the pics and short articles of miraculous events. Keep up the good work and take care of yourself.
You are very welcome! Isn't he terrific?!? Yes I've been through his site! Did you know that George used to be a model? Yup! And did you know that he only posts pictures of himself from 30 years ago? It's true! But to tell you the truth it's that goddamn video I can't seem to shake! It's with me 24 hours a day! It's changing me, I can feel it!
"Jesus Chriiist will be the Kinng of God's Kinnngdom!" I sing! Day in and day out! I'm not sure how it'll end, but my guess is that it'll be bloody.
Thanks for the email David.
Yours, after George,
Couldn't resist your offer. Here is an "alien convert" to add to your collection/tribute. Best wishes and good luck in all of your endeavors. Your site keeps me sane!
Wm Jas Tychonievich tells it like it is.
Ian Buchanan's submission!
Becca and her boyfriend give it a go!
Click here to hear Thomas Murray's remix of the George Pappas classic.
Even Hellbound Alleee sang her own version!
|“I'm not sure if I properly communicated my point using the analogy in my last email to you.”
Sorry I didn't get back to right away. Sundays are pretty busy for me. Thanks for taking the time to respond to me. I understand that my emails are classified as "hatemail" on your website now. Did I come across that harsh? Or does "hatemail" mean I am espousing a viewpoint with which you don't agree? I had a chance to look at your artwork. You are very gifted. I also appreciate you explaining the inspiration for the various drawings you did. It was very interesting. Your website contains a whole lot of information and it is obvious that you have been very diligent in maintaining it. I felt I was able to understand your viewpoints a bit more by perusing it's content.
I'm not sure if I properly communicated my point using the analogy in my last email to you. I say that, because your responding analogy was not really apples to apples, if you know what I mean. My analogy was put forth to help you understand why Christ followers are hurt or offended when they see the crucified Jesus dress up site you created. I'm fairly certain you would say that you respect human life. What about the life of Jesus? He was fully human, and of course, I believe HE was also fully divine. But, His was still a life that was not only disrespected, but mercilessly taken. Sometimes respecting human life means not showing unusually cruel disdain for what others esteem, even if it is contrary to our own belief system.
For instance, I am a Christ follower and I am aware that Jesus made some pretty exclusive claims about Himself that I believe with all of my heart. I am also aware that my Muslim friend does not believe in Jesus as I do, but does revere Mohammed as God's highest prophetic expression in the world. He also believes Allah is God and that there is no other. I, however, do not share his views whatsoever. Because I don't agree, would it therefore be right for me to vilify, and trivialize Mohammed in a cartoon of my own creation? Please understand, this is not a free speech issue. I am not advocating censorship at all. Perhaps, self censorship. I would call it being responsible and respectful. Again, I am asking, would that be right for me to do? There are much more responsible and respectful ways of dialogueing with my Muslim friend. I might even learn something in the process...and so might he. But if I simply take that which is "holy" to another and submerge it in that which is unholy, unclean and common (it's been done, ask Andres Serrano about his artwork), what hope do I have of either a mutal agreement to disagree, or even of winning my friend to my point of view?
Let's take this a step further using your analogy of a child gone bad. God forbid, let us say hypothetically that your child became the next Jeffrey Dahmer-like serial killer. All people would agree that he was a wicked person and he did evil things. (Maybe not all, sad to say...forgot about Brian Warner.) How would you feel if someone hosted a website that featured the artistic mock cannibalazation of your son's victims? What if they drew cartoons about his murderous acts? Wouldn't you be horrified as well as saddened? It's not that your sons actions weren't abominable, it's simply that what happened is all too horrifying and tragic to be trivilized in any way. You would want to begin to do something positive to help the victim's families. You would, in a sense, want to clear your name by bringing something good out of such tragedy. However, the artist and creator of the website could simply say that because your son was so evil, he deserved to be villified this way, and that he was simply exercising his right to freedom of expression. "But what of his innocent victims?" you might ask. "Not my problem...collateral damage..." he might say. How would you feel?
I am not sure what code of ethics an athiest lives by. Perhaps you borrow the golden rule from Jesus. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." However, do you include a caviat like, "unless you disagree with them, then you are free to mistreat them in any way you please"? I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, I really am curious. There seems to be a disparity here. You want people to be tolerant of your views, but are intolerant of others it would seem.
I have to say, I read some of the posts from some so called "Christians" and I am apalled. I read them cussing at you and stumbling through mispelled, illogical ad hominum attacks. Sad, to say the least. I hope we can continue to converse. And I would love to address some of those Biblical misquotations and other faulty arguments that are supposed to bolster a Christian world view.
ps. speaking of misquotation or misinterpretation...in your last post you referred to Jesus advocating the beating of slaves in Luke 12:47. Better go back and read it again. He was telling a parable about how someone who mistreated his fellow servants would eventually be judged for his violent behavior. Jesus was really saying in essence, what goes around comes around. That seems like an appropriate and timely message for us all to embrace.
By the way, since you want proof of God's existence and you would like to see a miracle with your own eyes...let me know what I can pray for...maybe God will grant it. World peace is a little out of my league at the moment...how about something a little more personal? Maybe inner peace? We will start small and work our way up. let me know.
Pastor Chris Dawes
Hello again Pastor Chris,
No no, you did not come across as harsh. My hate mail section has, over time, turned into the complaint department, so I've just started posting any letters in there of people complaining to me about my site. I think visitors to my site understand what's going on, and I justify it by saying that the emailer hates what I'm doing. Makes enough sense to me, and then I don't have to create a "Disappointed Mail" section, or a "Loves me, but Hates What I'm Doing" section. That'd totally throw off the whole balance of the front page in my opinion.
I'm happy to hear you enjoyed my portfolio section. Yeah, the site has a lot of my time and thought put into it. I take great pride in it and I feel that I'm providing a service, a quality service to people who want humor, logic, art and honesty. Five years later and I haven't strayed from any of these things yet, and I'm very proud of that.
Oh, and you properly communicated your analogy to me. I got exactly what you were saying. That's why my follow-up analogy was such a terrific retort (That retort you didn't address). I knew you would ignore it, but I had to voice it anyhow because it's exactly what I as an atheist feel in my heart. I really would have loved to have heard your feelings on it. Damn you Pastor Chris and your ability to blindly gloss over my genius analogy!
The analogy you presented was all about understanding the hurt believers feel when they see Jesus Dress Up. I get it. And you're trying to put my dress up game on par with man-eating psychopaths devouring children in front of their parents, and the mothers being pushed down a flight of stairs into a pile of half-eaten baby corpses. Yes, I know you want my site to be that horrific, but it's not. I'm trying to illustrate to you that your comparison is over-the-top, and the emotions attached to it are unreasonable. I think your latest analogy totally makes my point. I mean, God set up the whole crucifixion, right? And Jesus survived it! Am I wrong about this? Is this misinformation?!?! He came out of the whole deal with a few holes and a first-class ascent into paradise in the clouds, forever! Right? I think Jesus Dress Up illustrates perfectly the silliness of the whole nursery rhyme.
I definitely subscribe to the "Do unto others" parable! Hell, I even created one of these tragic dress up pages for an atheist! ME! normalbobsmith.com/revenge/ Can you believe it? How heroic is that!??! And I've always invited others to question, criticize and molest me! I want it! I think it's necessary and good! Keeps me on my toes and it challenges others to think! Politely smiling, pretending you respect other beliefs while inside you know they're tools of Satan and going to hell, that to me is hypocritical. You say that I mistreat them in any way I please, as if I'm whipping them around with a belt while they crawl across the driveway on all fours screaming. Pastor Chris, say it for what it is. It's a dress up game that disrespects God. That's all I'm doing. I'm not praising the deeds of Dahmer. I'm not dragging children through the streets and publicly humiliating their lifeless bodies. I'm calling Jesus' bluff. I'm picking a fight with a Supreme Being. I'm treating something that's silly, sillily. Jesus the angel in heaven loving us all more than our own parents love us is a silly concept. Anyhow, Barney the Purple Dinosaur totally co-opted Jesus' act and ruined it for everyone.
And in regards to Jesus condoning slave beating, I wish I'd said just "slavery," but I got a little ahead of myself. We all know that Jesus was all right with slavery. He had multiple opportunities to condemn it, yet never did. And what's slavery without the beatings? You show me Jesus telling people slavery is wrong the and condemning the beatings and you'll get a vote from me for Jesus. Hey, and what about Him encouraging the belief in things without any evidence or logic? Why didn't you address that part too?
Pastor Chris, there shouldn't be anything that's above criticism. Any time the human race has put something (an idea or person) above criticism it's outcome has never been a pretty one. And when a concept does rise to such heights, that's the moment when it's essential for us to lock it in the stocks and put a pie in its face. Especially when it's a person being declared a god.
All I'm after is truth, and one thing I know for sure, as a 36 year old man, the truth isn't going to be found in your telepathic prayers to your imaginary friend in the sky, so you might as well pray for world peace. Silly man.
|“I am having a bit of a difficult time communicating all that is in my heart.”
Again, thanks for writing back. I've met a few others with silmilar views as your own. They have been willing to forcefully share their views with me, but have not be very willing to hear me out. I appreciate you being different in this respect. Thanks for taking the time to read my ideas, even if I am having a bit of a difficult time communicating all that is in my heart.
I know that you say you haven't missed what I've said. That's probably true, yet somehow I can't shake the feeling that I haven't been completely heard. You said that I didn't respond to your excellent retort. But I felt I hadn't communicated what I said in my first big email to you properly. That's why I sort of repeated myself in the second, in the hope that I might be able to do better the second time.
I know you said you were able to follow my analogy about a son or daughter being killed and how you would feel if someone trivilized the tragedy on a website. But then in your retort to my analogy, you "changed the rules", so to speak...you became ageless and omnicient and were able to race ahead in time and discover that my/your murdered son/daughter had delusions of grandeur, a "messiah" complex, taught strange illogical things to a small group of followers that formed a conspiracy to promote him/her to the level of deity and eventually grew in numbers by convincing "converts" that the false things our son/daughter said about him/herself were true. And that the world became a much darker place because of the negative influence of our son/daughter. And because of that, trivializing their tragic death is a good thing. "they deserve it...they have done more to harm than to help."
But in this last email, you clarified things for me by saying, "The analogy you presented was all about understanding the hurt believers feel when they see Jesus dress up. I get it." I also appreciate your honesty when you say you are "disrepecting God...I'm calling Jesus' bluff. I'm picking a fight with the supreme being."
It sounds like you believe that Jesus was just a man with some strange or even unoriginal and borrowed ideas...was executed by the Romans, and that his followers somehow stole his body, secretly buried it, and started some amazing folk tale that has grown into the "monster" that is Christianity today.
But honestly now...do you really believe that his frightened followers simply made up this colossal lie and held on to it, even in the face of their own torture and executions? Some were crucified upside down, some drawn and quartered, some beheaded or thrust through with a sword...but they all were eyewitnesses of the same resurrected Jesus...and they all maintained their eyewitness accounts to the end, even though they were tortured mercilessly. Or are their accounts all made up too? What do you think?
You said, "Show me Jesus telling people slavery is wrong and condemning the beatings and you'll get a vote from me for Jesus." Have you read the portion in the Bible about Jesus condemning the (lawful in that culture) stoning of a woman caught in the act of adultery? The famous words, "let he who has no sin cast the first stone" came out of his exchange with the religious leaders of his day. He said to her (in apparent contradiction to Old Testament law) "neither do I condemn you...go and sin no more."
Jesus deliberately confronted the racial prejudice and even religious intolerance that he saw around him. in John 4, we read the account of him speaking to a woman (a no no for a Rabbi...especially a single one) from Samaria...one who had been married five times and was currently just playing house with some guy. He did not condemn her, but he did instruct her. Practically the whole town in Samaria then came out to hear Jesus speak and he accepted them and showed respect for them...and taught his disciples to do the same. There was so much racial and religious tension between those of Hebrew descent and the Samaritans that it could get violent at times. Jesus confronted this and condemned it.
The first person to be a messenger for the resurrected Jesus was a woman...Mary Magdalene. And because of Jesus compassionate treatment of women (very counter-cultural in His day), the early church had women in the highest places of authority. Jesus was not a chauvenist. He condemned people treating women as mere property.
He also treated children very differently than the religious leaders of his day. The religious leaders of his day and even his own disciples didn't have much time for children. Jesus condemned this and affirmed that children were the closest to the kingdom of God.
Jesus was a friend of corrupt tax collectors, gentile Roman soldiers, prostitutes, and "sinners" of all kinds. He upset the apple cart wherever he went. He condemned people mistreating others. And later on, under the influence of Jesus and His teachings, we see the Apostle Paul making revolutionary statements like, "In Christ, there is no east or west, no jew or gentile, no slave or free..." In fact, Paul devotes a book to defending a runaway slave as a brother and not a slave in the short book of Philemon.
So...do we get a vote for Jesus from you now Bob?
I think you would agree with the following quote from Jesus; "you know a tree by it's fruit."
So I ask you, what is the fruit of your endeavors? Are you cursing the darkness (ironically, in this case, it's the light) or lighting a candle?
One final thing. you said you weren't interested in my "telepathic prayers to your imaginary friend in the sky..."
I'd like to offer you a challenge. You say on your site that you are in desperate need of work in your field of expertise. I can tell you are a hard worker and that you take pride in what you do. How would you like me to pray for business to come your way? and over the next 30 days you can chart the business you do and then be honest enough to report on your website about it.
How about it Bob? nothing up my sleeve. None of my parishioners will want to hire you for obvious reasons and I have a pretty small church anyway. So I can't cook the books here or manipulate anything. how about it Bob? Are you up for it?
Let me know, and let's be public about this. Then all your readers can see for themselves. and make their own decisions.
Let me know, Bob.
Sincerely, "the silly man"
Pastor Chris Dawes
Okay, now it looks like you're just tryin' to be difficult. Either that or the way you think is just ass-backwards. Did you even read the letter I sent to you? My analogy didn't ever suggest that our child had delusions of grandeur or a messiah complex. Don't you remember? These are the illogical alternatives you give your followers, and rightly so. Because the real alternatives make sense. My analogy stuck with the kid being a do-gooder, then after passing, the stories were blown out of proportion and exaggerated by others, from one person to the next, from one group to the next, from one generation to the next! That's how it goes. A person's legend grows after they die. It's not an outrageous claim. Of course my analogy broke the rules of time and supposed us to be ageless, because it's through those eyes that you can see how things really happen over time. Not there at the moment, everything going from truth to "the monster of Christianity" all in a few days! It's this short term overview where you fall short in your philosophy.
Do I think Jesus' followers secretly stole His body, buried it and started the amazing folk tale that's become Christianity?!?! I can't believe you're seriously asking me this question! Asking it to me as if it there has never been an instance of words being written that weren't true. Oh! Hey Chris, listen to this– I have a rabbit on the table in front of me. I'm taking off my hat and putting it over the rabbit, covering it completely. Now I'm lifting my hat and the rabbit's gone! No rabbit at all! I show the people at the table the hat, still no rabbit! How did I do that? Explain what I just described! Was it a miracle? Many people at the table just witnessed it! Hell, my friend here, Noah, is promising you that it happened just as I said it did! Explain that, Chris!
Wait, hold on! Don't email that last paragraph to all your friends to help you figure how I did that! Just hold tight. I'll explain to you what I did. Have you heard the saying "The best lies are the ones that contain elements of truth?" Chris, I am really sitting at a table. I have a friend here named Noah. There's a hat here too. Those things are true. But then I lied to you. I wrote down words that weren't true, and then I said that they were true. There was no rabbit. I never made it disapear. And the hat wasn't mine, and it was on another table belonging to someone else. Do you get the trick now? How old are you Pastor Chris? There are parts of the bible that never happened! They are written there and told to you to be true, but they are not! Do you understand the point that I am making? Jeesh!
I'd like to think that the fruit of my endeavors is complete and total honesty with myself and others, and doing it to the best of my ability. A sense of humor is another fruit of my endeavors! Humor, no matter how blasphemous God may say it is. Good comedy is a very important thing. And it's something that way too many people don't have. I am in constant pursuit of the truth. And when I see a blatant, obvious untruth, I seek to rectify it and spare any innocent bystander inconvenience of being stung by it. From my vantage point it looks like your fruit is a history of telling people to blindly walk forward, hands extended, assuring them that that's how they get to paradise, the reward they have coming for having the guts to believe a story.
Okay, did I use the word desperate? I just asked for work! Jeesh! Okay, let me explain. I found out that if I don't ask for work people simply assume that I'm too busy. In fact, when I make a post like the one you saw I often get responses to the effect of "I've had several jobs for you in the past, I just figured you were to busy with the site and other work to even bother!" Right now I have plenty of jobs on my plate and it's because I asked for them. Don't bother praying for them. I suppose Satan is making sure I'm busy so that I can continue to supplement his message of evil and despair.
And no. In the five paragraphs you wrote, none of them say one thing about Jesus condemning slavery. Why do you suppose Jesus never mentioned it, Chris? Maybe He wasn't perfect after all? Maybe God told a flawed story?!?! Jesus gets minus one vote! And that's my vote! I hope He's happy! Maybe if Jesus had said something anti-slavery, Christians wouldn't have purchased slaves and enslaved them, making them slave like they slaved. Jesus really messed up big time if ya ask me! How could a primitive man like Jesus do something so thoughtless? Beats me.
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