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Subject: Hi, Normal Bob!
First off, I've
gotta say, I love your website!
A little bit about me. I'm a 33 year old mum from Australia, engaged to
a wonderful 33 year old man. We have a six year old daughter and a ten
month old son.
My mother was raised a strict catholic. My father was not really raised
to be religious, I mean he was sent to Sunday School but used to go
somewhere else instead. He was/is a hard core atheist. I was raised to
believe, 'there's no such thing as god, that's a load of bull crap,
there's no heaven and no hell and you die and that's it'. Cool. Got on
with my merry little childhood.
I started school at the age of five, not hearing about or knowing much
about god or christianity, and not being in the slightest bit
interested either. Anyway, once I started school, I was sent to this
catholic scripture class, my guess being because my mum was a catholic
before she hooked up with my old man. (She was an atheist by now though)
I took home the catholic workbook, with no idea of what it was even
about. My parents hit the roof! (This was in the 70's) I was pulled out
of that scripture quick smart, and when everyone else went to
scripture, I would go to the principal's office and read. I was already
good at reading, and with this extra practice, I just got better.
Win/win, I'd say.
Once I was in 2nd grade, I was allowed to go to scripture in the church
of England group. I'm not sure why, maybe my parents felt I was old
enough to be exposed and make up my own mind. It was interesting, but
to be honest, it made me realise I was really missing nothing at all.
Then, once I was in 4th grade, I was friends with a girl who was a
christian, and she invited me to a bible study after school. I loved
going there, because we got to play games and have a yummy snack, plus
I got out of doing some homework.
That's when the pressure to believe started. I was ten years old, and
being told things such as, 'hell is not a very nice place, and if you
don't believe in god and accept jesus into your heart, you'll end up
there forever' followed by lots of descriptions of hell. It was
terrifying! I'd go to bed at night, and not be able to sleep because I
was so fearful of what would happen to me when I died. At that age, I
should've been enjoying life! I wasn't interested in this before!
By about sixth grade, I'd stopped going to that bible study, and
started to get a bit of peace of mind once again, the inability to
sleep and fear of death eased off.
By the time I was in about year nine in high school, another christian
friend invited me to a youth group on friday nights. I loved going
there, we lived in a small town with not much to do, and my parents
were pretty strict, so this was one place I was allowed to go. We'd go
bowling, to the movies, hang out, flirt with boys, etc. So I had fun
there. But, at the end of every night's session, there'd be a
'talk'. All about being a christian, guilting us and shaming us into
the need to give ourselves to jesus. And about how we were sinners. For
fuck's sake! Here it was again, I didn't see it creeping up on me til
the damage was done once again, lying awake, stressing out about not
what I wanted from life, but what I wanted from my death! Great way to
live a life, huh? Tossing up whether or not I was prepared to have a
miserable life denying myself of all sorts of pleasures, just on the
offchance that it MIGHT prevent me from being tortured in hell when I
die?
Once I left that youth group at the age of 18 (ie I was old enough to
drink and go more interesting places), lo and behold, the bad thoughts
before sleeping magically went away! I started to ENJOY life more once
again, and take advantage of any oppurtunities life presented me with.
I had a great youth after that, partying, travelling, studying things I
was interested etc.
Fast forward to the present. I am now highly aware of and
passionate about the effects of forcing religion on young children,
teenagers, or in fact anyone who is not interested. I have a lot of
christian friends who are lovely people, I respect their faith, and
they respect my beliefs too. I don't celebrate easter, xmas (unless
family invite us along, in which case we'll participate just to be
nice) our children are taught santa and the easter bunny are not real,
and the reason other kids believe they are real, is because their
parents lie to them and put the gifts out at night themselves. And that
the kids who believe in god, probably were told he was real too.
My daughter last year had a best mate who was a christian. We were very
accepting of that family's beliefs. The mother invited my daughter to a
'holiday club' at her church (it was school hols, and this was a
christian fellowship for kids). I politely thanked her, but told her
that my daughter was not allowed, as it did not fit in with our
beliefs. The mother assured me there was no preaching, they just played
games and were doing the olympics for the kids. My daughter went to
their house to play one day without me.
They asked her AGAIN if she'd like to go to 'holiday club'. She said
politely, 'no thank you, I don't believe in god.'
My daughter told me, this mother then said, 'god is real!' And my
daughter I think just shrugged and let it go. This family brought my
daughter back home and came inside. My daughter's friend asked me if my
daughter could go to this club. I said, 'I'm very sorry, but she won't
be able to go'. Then my daughter started asking to go, too. The mother
asked me also, and told me, she'd pick her up each day and bring her
home, and it's really good, and her daughter really wanted my daughter
to go.
I was extremely annoyed at being put on the spot like this, as I had
already SAID NO.
So, just to shut everyone up and avoid a big scene, I said to all of
them, 'I'll talk to my partner tonight about it.' Knowing full well we
both felt strongly it was a big NO.
I was really glad I stuck to my guns on this, as another mother who
attends the same church, saw me one day and referred to this 'holiday
club' as 'Bible club'. OH REALLY??
I love most christians, most live and let live. But I really fucking
hate liars, especially the ones who think kids raised in an atheist
family are fair game to brainwash. 'oh, they don't believe anything, so
it won't matter'. Sorry, but us atheists are free to believe in
whatever we choose, so our beliefs are as varied as the stars in the
sky!
Anyway, I thought well, that's it, the hard part is behind us. No, it
wasn't. My daughter had this little girl over for her birthday. (a few
months before xmas) It is well known at our school, that my daughter
does not believe in god or santa or easter bunny, and we don't
celebrate xmas etc. Our reasons why are no one else's business. This
little girl was rude to me from the start of this visit, to the very
end. Ordering me around like some servant, spilling drinks and yelling,
'clean that up!' Screaming in my baby son's face, then when he cried,
'make him stop crying!' If that's what raising a good little christian
child gets you, I'll keep my ignorant heathen child who says
please and thank you every single time, and wipes up her own spills,
thank you very much!
Then right before
we sang happy birthday, she said, 'why don't you celebrate xmas?'
'because we don't believe in it.' 'why not?'
I patiently explained that everyone believes in something different.
Some, like her, believed in god, some believe in allah or buddha, some
just believe whatever they like. She turned rudely to me and stated,
'my mum says, if you don't believe in god, you won't get any presents
off santa'. I replied, 'I don't mind'. She got shocked (greedy little
gift hungry bitch that she is) then said, 'well MY MUM says if you
don't believe in god, YOU'LL go to the devil!' I said, 'well I don't
believe that, but if you believe that, I will respect your beliefs. And
I can see that xmas means a lot to you, so I hope you have a wonderful
time on that day' She looked really shocked and pissed off!
My poor daughter,
who was just wanting to enjoy her birthday, was sitting there looking
miserable. See, she's six. Not interested in this crap, and she gets
sick of when people bring it up, as she can't see the point of any of
it and it bores her to tears. One day, she asked me who the pope was,
so I explained it to her, and she got annoyed saying, 'why did
you have to bring god into it?' I explained that I was only telling her
because she was asking me who the pope was, LOL.
It's at the point now, where that little girl will look at me in the playground, and as soon as I say hello, will deliberately turn her head away to ignore me. I have told my daughter, that that girl is not welcome in my house, until such time as she starts to treat me with manners and decency. All of which, I am lead to believe, are supposed to be taught to christian children. She is the rudest little girl I have ever known.
My daughter is banned from attending scripture classes. She goes to non scripture and gets to play with toys there with the other hoards of non believing children, rather than listening to crap about hell and damnation.
The best part of my childhood was when I was religion free. It started to turn to shit once I started being allowed to (and allowing myself in some cases) be preached to. So, my children, all the way until they are 18, and I will have no further say in it, will not be preached at by biased people. If they want to learn about religion, I will teach them, or they can read a non biased book, so that they can understand and respect what others believe. But I will NOT have my children brainwashed, and I truly believe that is one of the best things I can give my children.
Thanks so much for this site, although I do love my christian friends, and respect thier beliefs, it is fantastic to have a site, for those of us with beliefs like ours. I'm a huge fan of your work, and anytime someone like that awful pushy family give me a hard time, I read your hate mail, and not only realise I'm not alone, but man, you cop it ten times worse! LOL
Those pushy christians who write to you are so hateful, have serious literacy problems, and I don't think they are all right in the head at all. All the nice christians with thier heads screwed on straight and loving hearts, would simply live and let live and not let a site like this get to them.
Keep up the good work mate!
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| “Hisorical evidence is clear. So now what?” |
I'm guessing you don't believe Jesus is the savior
of the world. You have a right to believe what you want. But there is
no argument that he did die on a cross. Hisorical evidence is clear. So
now what? Let's make a website to make fun of him. The Bible says that
Jesus was marred beyond recognition. Whether or not you think his
brutal beating was for your sins or not is up to you. But you want to
make fun of him now. How do you sleep at night?
Adam
grubby494@excite.com |
Oh, I'm not saying some guy named Jesus didn't die
on the cross! You misunderstood! I'm just mocking the sacrifice end of
it. You see, that guy and His Dad both belly-ache 'til they're dry in
the eye about what a HUGE sacrifice they both made and how we all owe
them both for the rest of eternity for being such American heroes for
it. MEANWHILE they forget to mention that part of the deal of their
"sacrifice" was He gets to come back to life! Yeah! I know! What
the?? I want my money back!!!! And you wanna know somethin' else,
Adam? Not only did Jesus get resurrected but then He got beamed up to
paradise where He still sits to this very day! With His DAD!!
And those fuckers've been in paradise for 2000
years and everybody wants me to feel sorry for Him?? Haha! Sorry! I
dabbed my eyeballs and there ain't nothin' there! Sorry. Not a one.
So tell me this Adam, according to that sacrifice
deal, how long does Jesus get to stay in paradise? What?? FOREVER!?!?!?
You've got to be kidding me!!!!!! I'm gonna go put a pair of baby
diapers and a sunbonnet on Him right now!!!
Bob |
| “...die for people who deserve the same punishment
Jesus got. People who are so low and unholy compared to the God of the
universe.” |
Yeah, he does get to stay in Paradise forever.
What you are forgetting to take into consideration is that Jesus was
God. He always was. In John, chapter 1 says in the beginning was the
Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God. Jesus is the
word in John's statement. Jesus, when on earth, was fully God and fully
man. But he always was. That is what you're not seeing. Jesus (God) was
always in Paradise. He left it to be rejected by men and to be beaten
and to be killed for our sins. He didn't die so he could go to heaven.
He left the greatness of heaven to save us. Sure, we would die to go to
Paradise. But if you were already there would you leave to come down
here and die for people who deserve the same punishment Jesus got.
People who are so low and unholy compared to the God of the universe.
People like you and I. The beating and the crucifixion was supposed to
be OUR punishment and hell on top of that. Jesus came so that we can be
found sinless before God. No one with sin can see God because he is
holy. Jesus, a sinless man, bore the sin of the world so we wouldn't
have to. Accept and rejoice brother. There is no greater gift than
this. Why would you reject or turn it down? Because of this death any
sin can be covered. Jesus changed my life.
There is more proof in me and in other's
testimonies than anything else. I was never the same after I accepted
Christ. There is more truth in the cross of Jesus Christ than in
anything you will find in this world. Please reconsider. I want you to
know Jesus as I do. Is it not apparent that there is something
different in my life? I have plenty of stuff that I need to be doing,
but I am writing you this long e-mail. This is because I want people to
know Jesus as I do. You will never regret it. It is the best decision I
have ever made. God bless you and I will be praying for you.
Adam
grubby494@excite.com |
"Worship Him! Worship Him! Praise His Holy
Name! Join Ussssssssss! You must join usssssss! I was once like you but
now I am one of them! Do you see how I am different than before? It has
changed me and it will change you too! Forever and ever and ever!!!!
Your mind is too free and your will has yet to be caged! His Word is
true and we are all to fall under its spell! It commands us to believe,
without question! Become like me! Change to be more like usssss! Our
Lord wants us all to be the same! We are all to be like our Lord and
thus our Lord will become more like us until we are all the same! Join
us Bob! JOINNNNN USSSSSSS!!!!"
That's you.
Bob |
| “I guarantee my mind is more free as a Christian.
Before, the world had my mind in a cage.” |
We are not all the same. God made everyone
uniquely. It is not about joining anything and Christians don't want to
change you. People always say that you have to change. God is the one
that changes you. "Anyone who is in Christ is a new creation; the old
has gone, the new has come." -2nd Corinthians 5:17.
The church is just a good place because people
strengthen other people. It is not a team, it is a family. And I
guarantee my mind is more free as a Christian. Before, the world had my
mind in a cage. When you truly explore the world with a free mind
though everything points to Christ. Keep searching and I will keep
praying. God bless you once again.
Adam
grubby494@excite.com |
You keep quoting the Bible as if that book is
filled with just good advice. Adam, I am perfectly aware that your
Bible also told people to kill women and children (Judges 21:10-24),
promote slavery (Judges 1:21-35), stone your very own children to death
(Deuteronomy 21:18) and even sacrafice them to your God by setting them
on fire (Genesis 22:1-18). Clearly it's advice that needs to be taken
with a tremendous grain of salt. I'm sure you'd at least agree with me
on that in reference to "murder your own children." Say that you agree
with me on that, please!
That said, I don't see how worshipping anything,
be it a slave master, a dominatrix, a god, a statue, a dictator or
anyone for that matter could free one's mind. Unless you mean "free" in
the sence that you don't have to think for yourself anymore. Then I
completely understand what you mean by that!
And "Yikes!"
I'll tell you what, Adam. You keep your God and
His 10-Ways-to-Murder-Children book and you go have a nice life being
"free." I'm going to get back to using my own brain to make decisions
for myself, and studying up-to-date books for answers on how NOT to kill children. Okay?
Buh bye Adam!
Buh bye!
Bob |
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So not funny! So disrespectful! Honestly it makes
me cringe!
June Perry |
As do your beliefs which make me cringe. Is it
true that you'll have a paradise in Heaven while others suffer forever
in hell for the crime of believing something different than you? Is
that true???
Bob |
| “I know there are many who never have the opportunity
to choose as they are never exposed. I do not believe God will condemn
them.” |
I pray they don't. I know there are many who never
have the opportunity to choose as they are never exposed. I do not
believe God will condemn them.
Best to you, June |
Ahhh. I didn't realize you get to makeup your
belief as you go along to suit what you hope is true. That's a nice
angle to take, but it certainly doesn't make your beliefs seem very
true. In fact, it makes them seem a lot more imaginary than before even!
Hey, are you allowed to alter God's word to suit
yourself? Is there a scripture I missed that permits rewriting the
bible? I'm very very curious about this. Please explain.
Bob |
| “I am not a Fundamentalist” |
Dear Bob,
I am not a Fundamentalist, but I am a Christian!
Peace, June |
Wait, what does that mean? You get to yell at non
Christians about their websites, but you don't have to stick to
Christian rules and memorize their trivia?
Bob |
| “I would never denigrate another for their personal
faith/religion/beliefs” |
You may call it yelling, I felt I was just
reacting. The little game offended me. I would never denigrate another
for their personal faith/religion/beliefs, but to make a joke of Jesus
on the cross to me is just stepping over the line. I saw a little skit
on probably Comedy Central where A mockery of Jesus on the cross was
made into a big joke, (dance partner or something like it). It is
offensive to me as His act of dying on the cross for us was something
too sacred, the reason I cringe is I feel God would look at that
incredulously that the gift to us and Jesus sacrifice would be so
mocked.
I just would not mock that which is so precious and central to anothers
faith.
As it may be trivia to you, It is deep in the
souls of the believers. I am speaking in general terms, I would not
spit on the Quran, a likness of Buddha , well you get the idea.
Best to you, June |
| What if you discovered that the beliefs were
harmful? Then would you consider spitting on them? |
| “if I descovered some beliefs were harmful to others by
those who practiced them, and If this were proven that harm was cone as
a result of ones practices, I would loudly and often defame the
practice” |
No. But if I descovered some beliefs were harmful
to others by those who practiced them, and If this were proven that
harm was cone as a result of ones practices, I would loudly and often
defame the practice with documentation to support my words.
Now I believe you are going to respond with
various circumstances or incidents of harm that in some twisted way you
believe is attributed to Christians. A true Christian who strives to
follow the commandments is just that. That is not to say that
supposedly in the name of Christianity evil has not been commited, just
as in the name of Allah, but the evil comes from the evil persons who
are not following the laws of "their god", or in the Christian
community, by the evil persons who are there as well with an agenda of
their own. You cannot blame all the faithful and true believers for the
evils of those lost souls.
Peace, June |
June, I am about to list off, as you predicted,
reasons why I think the Christian religion is harmful. BUT I plan to
have my reasons fit with the Christianity that you practice today,
without the Crusades or witch burnings or any of the stuff you think
I'm gonna complain about. All right? Please hear me out.
Reason #1 that Christianity is harmful- It teaches faith over logic. The Christianity you believe and teach to
children promotes believing in things using faith over the use of one's
own common sense, and sometimes even over science itself. I feel that
this is harmful because it discourages the search for real answers, and
instead allows the Christian to "fill in the gaps" with answers based
solely on faith.
Reason #2 that Christianity is harmful- The Christianity you practice tells of Christ's glorious return to
earth and all of His followers being swept up into heaven after
Armageddon. Correct? And June, did you know that a majority of
Christians think that this event will take place within their own
lifetime? This belief does not encourage any sort of preparations for
our long term future, but could instead encourage any kooky Christian
in power to do their best to usher in an Armageddon by whatever means
necessary. This is very VERY bad.
Reason #3 that Christianity is harmful- Your religion puts many things as priority over other human beings.
Number one thing more important than human beings is God, of course.
This includes more important than your family, friends, and anyone else
you may think is really important. Jesus is also more important than
every other human being. The Word of God and Jesus are more important
than human beings. If God commands it you do it, NO MATTER WHAT! This
is very VERY dangerous too, June!
Reason #4 that Christianity is harmful- Christianity paints a picture that this life is nothing compared to the
one you get after you die. As an atheist I cringe thinking of how many
people put that other "eternal life" as the one worth waiting for– The
life that makes this one look like a freakin' speck of dust.
Reason #5 that Christianity is harmful- Your belief damns certain people to hell, forever. These are human
beings who suffer forever and ever, sometimes for just believing
something other than Christian beliefs. How is it that a person can
enjoy any sort of paradise in heaven if, for instance, their parent or
child dies a non believer? How is a person supposed to compute the
information of a paradise with loved ones in hell? Perhaps family
members don't matter once you're in heaven? Perhaps your fellow human
beings don't affect your emotions once you're in heaven. Maybe once
you're in heaven your mind is wiped of the people you cared about on
earth, and those human lives lost in hell are trivial, and don't
deserve one tear once you're in heaven. Perhaps this means life is
trivial? What else could it mean if I can have a paradise while others
burn forever?
To me, these are very real, harmful qualities of
Christianity that devalue precious human life, the love we should have
for our loved ones, and the importance of real, provable truth that is
tried and tested using logic, common sense, and science. This is your
Christianity, June, as you practice it today, and teach it to children,
whether you word it the way that I just did or not.
Bob |
| “...going to forward that to an Episcopal Priest I correspond with and have been asking him many questions about strength of faith” |
Bob
I do intend to respond to your reasons, they were all very familiar to me as they have been a big hurdle for me. I am also with your permission going to forward that to an Episcopal Priest I correspond with and have been asking him many questions about strength of faith. Don't misunderstand, I believe and I hope to show you why and why it is not in opposition with logic.
Peace, June |
Sure. You have my full permission to forward those to whoever you please. I'll warn you though, I've posed these questions to dozens and dozens of pastors, priests, reverends, doctors, teachers, and here's what to expect:
"I too have struggled with these questions and this is where my faith in God blah blah blah..."
or...
"You see June, In heaven fire and ice are one. Black is white and white is black. Fish fly and birds swim. It is a place we cannot understand, or explain, or even conceive of in this dimension here on earth blah blah blah..."
or...
"My sweet, precious child, do you think you know more than God? You ask questions of the Supreme Being? You are just a sinner. Why does God have to answer to you?"
I've yet to hear any one of them say, "Yeah, I know. It doesn't make sense because it's all bull. All of it is complete hogwash thought up thousands of years ago by superstitious cavemen, but this is how I make my living now and I'm too old a dog to learn any new tricks, and everyone believes it anyhow so why rock the boat? Just believe or go to hell forever. You know the drill."
So while you're reading whatever it is they send back to you, imagine how these exact same answers could apply to any made-up, brainwashing cult makin' up excuses instead of finally admitting it's all a crock of shit.
Bob |
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