Subject: Wasted talent

I'm sorry to say that you are wasting your talent for art. My 8 yr old grandaughter just showed me your "Dress Up Jesus" site. Why would you do something like that....oh yeah for all the Atheists...well I'm not one and think that you should think twice about messing with God! I know this is just my opinion and there is that thing called "Freedom of speech...well as a Christian I have my Freedom of speech also."

Lisa Martin
Texas
contreegrl75455@yahoo.com

Let me begin by saying that I am not at all appreciative of the opinions you've voiced here in this email to me this afternoon. You may have the Right to Freedom Of Speech as well, but just so you know I have my right to Freedom of Speech too, which permits me to express my lack of appreciation for your feedback.

I regret that you had to feel the full wrath of that amendment gone full circle, but it's precisely what you should expect when you exercise your rights. I hope you learned a good lesson here today!

Bob

I didn't learn anything...I still feel the same way about mocking Jesus Christ. What I wish I had done was not been so upset when I wrote you. I just saw the look on a child's face that didn't understand why someone would want to put a Devil costume on Jesus and so on. I was offened.

Nomally I would have just closed the page, but felt I had to speak up. I would never intentionally hurt someone's feelings and I'm invious of anyone who can draw, paint, or do computer art, but I really thought it was what I had to do. I do appologize for hurting you personally, but still don't like that particular artwork. I think you are a talented artist and wish you success. I just feel the way I feel. I'm not on some crusade to trash you or your site...I'm done!

Lisa Martin
contreegrl75455@yahoo.com

Hey Lisa,
I wasn't at all upset by your email. I was sorta just joking because it surprised me that you didn't think I was aware of your right to free speech, and that this is something atheists forget when they voice their beliefs. It struck me as funny, and I couldn't resist making light of your insight, just a bit.

I relate to your concern for how this all affects children, but I'm on the other side of the coin. I think it is far more harmful to teach those fables about Jesus, Heaven & Hell to them and others who believe differently suffer forever in a lake of fire, and it is still somehow possible for you to enjoy paradise while they burn. To me that is far more disturbing than my game page of a fictitious character. There's a whole planet of people out there your child thinks are doomed to burn eternally after they're in the grave. How do you think a child translates this?

I hope you don't mind me mocking you a little. It's just so crazy to me to think there's really full grown adults out there who believe in the gods and angels and a paradise while others burn. It's really extremely funny ...if you're not who you seem to be.

Bob

Hey Bob--

If you are truly an atheist, then why do you care what other people believe? I mean according to you we all die then nothing, right? In addition, you say that you didn't exist before you were born--could it be that you just don't remember? Do you remember when you were 6 months old? (you will probably answer yes to this question just to be an ass, but that's OK, we all know you don't remember)

The fact is you cannot prove atheism is correct any more than a Muslim can prove Islam, so in effect you just BELIEVE there is no God--therefore there is no purpose to life, and no reason to exist. Which begs the question, why do we exist?

Interested to see your answer,
IJN
gwm357@yahoo.com

As a matter of fact I DO remember being 6 months old! I even remember being born and I remember thinking to myself "Hey, I don't remember existing yesterday? Interesting."

So wait. You're of the train of thought that we all did indeed exist before we were born? Like, were we angels in heaven before that? Or is that what cherubs are? This sort of thinking sounds more reasonable to you than evolution? You do realize that evolution has been proven by science? I mean, there's evidence for it that proves it true. You understand that, right?

If you think that without gods to worship there's no purpose to life, then you need to look around at life a little more. See all the people walking around? Wouldn't you say they're worth some sort of effort and purpose? And what about the people you love? Is it only your god that gives them any sort of value? I have to tell you that your sort of thinking strikes me as immensely more unreasonable and dehumanizing. And that's precisely the reason why I care about what others believe.

People's beliefs really affect their thoughts on the value they put on others.

Interested in your answers.
Bob

I'm sorry about the long-windedness about this, but religion really pisses me off and most people act all shocked if I say so, even if they aren't religious personally. It's like this hyper respect for religious faith. I would think somebody who liked to eat grass pretty bizarre. So would everybody else. But if they then said "I belong to a religion where eating grass is a way to connect with God," nobody would challenge them, or even suggest that eating grass was not a particularly good way to look after their digestive system. Richard Dawkins wrote about it in the God Delusion, chapter 2 I think.

Hi Bob...

You are possibly the most abnormal person I've ever heard of.
JOIN THE CLUB! lol.

I'm also an atheist. I've spent most of my night (that was a week or so ago) emailing fundamentalist Christian anti-abortionists with this:

Jesus did not shun prostitutes. He did not recoil with disgust from lepers or throw thieves in jail. He had nothing to do with the fundamentalists of his time, who as you may recall eventually executed him. If Jesus Christ were here today he would not be screaming insults at doctors and harassing distraught women. He'd be in the waiting room comforting them.

Not a single response. Naturally.

It just irritates me that people can be such total sheep. If you come out with something they have no answer to (ie. any one of the fifty-odd proofs that nobody with a functioning brain can believe in God) they just say it's all about faith, that you can't approach it with logic. Religion, particularly Christianity, would have to be the single biggest enemy of thought in the world. If I stopped thinking I would probably be religious.
Like this one: (Reasons for Believing in God, forget where it comes from. Some atheist humour site).
1. I want money.
2. I don't feel like working for money.
3. People are gullible.
4. I can convince gullible people to believe just about anything.
5. Therefore I will convert them to my cult.
6. And fleece them of all their money.
7. I will then be rich.
8. Therefore, God exists.

Anyway, I contact you as an atheist to suggest that maybe some of the content on your site isn't the most appropriate. We are already stereotyped as immoral and all the rest of it. The Dress Up Jesus/Mohummad isn't particularly funny, it's just immature and unnecessarily provocative. So is the extensive use of profanities. Nobody needs the dressups to convince them that you are a talented artist. There are enough inoffensive examples. (IE: Sheeples - those were provoked, and they use actual quotes, not dressing up somebody that millions of people admire as a baby or a clown or a prositute or a christmas tree or whatever.)
My biggest complaint of religion is that people do evil things in the name of religion. Please, don't do silly, immature and offensive things in the name of atheism. Don't give the rest of us a bad name.

I know that you aren't going to remove the content. If a million Christians firing profanities at you (many saved on my computer, amidst much mirth, under the title 'Charming Christian Charity.doc') doesn't stop you, one relatively polite atheist isn't going to, and I accept that. But please put this email up on your site. I think we look a lot more reasonable to people trapped and trying to escape from religion if they don't think that we all get amusement from dressing up people who have been dead for 2000 years in stupid costumes, just because some idiots see fit to worship them as demigods.

I have seen firsthand examples of how trapped people feel when they have been raised religious and face being shunned and disinherited by their family, abandoned by their friends, and scorned by their workmates if they abandon their faith. In some countries the penalty is death. When you've been raised as a Christian, even if you no longer believe that there is an all-powerful magical being that will torture you for eternity because you said Jesus Christ it's hot today, the indoctrination is hard to dump when you see some guy pretending to be Satan dressing up your savior as a goat.

Have you ever read any of Richard Dawkins books? I just finished the God Delusion and he quotes a letter where a woman who has abandoned her faith to the point of counseling people who want to escape from Christianity, still goes speechless and shaking when Hell is mentioned because of the childhood indoctrination she received. It can't be easy when you're brought up to love Jesus more than your family members to decide that he died 2000 years ago. Maybe a bit of sensitivity - some links on the front page even - would go a long way.

Sarah.

PS: MAKE MORE SHEEPLES! They are fricken hilarious. I saved, like, half of them. I didn't even see what I saved them as because I couldn't read the screen through tears of laughter.
If anybody asks me for proof that Christians are incapable of thinking, I will be forced to direct them straight there.

PPS: You so have to change the background colour (or text maybe) of your Myspace page, it's almost unreadable.

PPPS: Why do Indians bother sending you profanities in Hindi anyway?

PPPPS: And why the hell do Christians post on your Myspace page expecting that their tag will make you fall on the floor going "Jesus! Jesus! I repent!"

Holy cow! Now I remember your email and why I didn't respond the first time you sent it. It's HUGE! It's like a really big email times 2! No wait. Times 3! I remember receiving it a week or so ago and trying to get through it on many occasions, but getting distracted by the clock ticking away. Then I'd imagine me writing out responses to all of your points and I pictured me growing a long beard and my fingernails getting so long I could no longer type on the keypad. Things get scary over here when lengthy complaints from atheists/agnostics land on my door step. Readers complain, time slows down to a snail's pace, and my head starts to ache at the thought of non believers who wanna give Jesus props for being a cool dude.

Sarah, Jesus is pretend. You really don't have to think very hard about it to realize that his life story is one huge make-believe, hugely embellished tale that's survived the test of no-evidence because it gives people hope and the promise of jackpot prizes at the end.

Sarah, you're also contradicting yourself. You LOVE the Sheeples, whose very concept is the outright mocking of stupid beliefs. How would you defend your laughter? "Those were provoked, and they use actual quotes, not dressing up somebody that millions of people admire as a baby or a clown or a prositute or a christmas tree."

I believe that the survival of Christianity (and all surviving religions) owe their success to non believers who show their respects. This attitude you, and many non believers have about not disrespecting foolish beliefs is tiresome. It's an umbrella that protects and permits the spreading of their foolishness. It is my belief that it gives atheists a bad name when you defend the likes of Jesus for being such a well thought up protagonist. Whether you mean to or not you're aiding the single biggest enemy of thought in the world when you do this.

If you enjoy Dawkins, you should also read Sam Harris. I strongly recommend his "Letter To A Christian Nation." In it he has no problem illustrating just how foolish he thinks Christian beliefs are, and addresses the issue you've brought to the table. It's less than 100 pages and brilliant.

You may have already known my stance on this, but there you go.
Bob