Hate Mail Unbelievably entertained and obsessed with the
Files of The Baron.
And this fantastic page that fully explains why slavery in the Bible isn't as bad as everyone's sayin': gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

His letters are in yellow, whilst mine are in black & white.

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Bob,

You are a freakin' GENIUS. I absolutely love your site and the incredible amount of wit and swagger you radiate. In fact, to have the audacity to blatantly insult/ humiliate/ emotionally-maul any opponent against you is freaking awesome! You are truly the logical man's heroine.


As a fellow non-believer, I have won many arguments with ignorant believers
(being that I am only 18, it is quite easy to assault my peers with logical approaches to life, while satirizing their pathetic beliefs)

I almost find it banal at some points, being that most responses to my questions and cross-examinations to my points are lackluster and boring at best. Most of the time I will hear Pascal's wager, I can't put god in a box, and many other insufficient points. But an idea that has came up recently has infiltrated my "wow what a retarded response, you are inferior" sensor. I was wondering if you could help me.

Let me start off by saying I do NOT believe in any structured religion and really never plan on doing so. The question was asked about the almost perfect luck we have had as a human race. The positioning of the earth, the intricate detail and vivacious color. The fine points of life that most believe, could simply not just come out of chance. How can I respond to this point?

Also, I would love to jump on board and help out the cause! I know I am young, but I feel that I have attained a clear way of thinking and skill-set that most people could not touch. Basically, I could kick the shit outta jesus :)

Ignorance is bliss,


Derrick Deen


It's really quite simple, Derrick. This would be an excellent point on the part of a Christian if every planet we encountered was abundant with life. If every part of our solar system we came into contact with was suitable to sustain life then one could easily argue, "How can this be? What magical force permits and protects the life on every planet we encounter? It's impossible to ignore!"

But that isn't the case, as we well know. Planets which can sustain life are extremely few and far between. In order for a planet to sustain life it has to be the precise distance from a certain size star, revolving at a consistent pace for a long long time. The odds of these requirements all coming together fit in squarely with the crowd of lifeless planets we find ourselves in. We are one in 10 billion in our galaxy alone. It isn't so hard to grasp when you understand how probabilities work, then look out at all of the unsuccessful attempts God made. He really failed many many times before he got to our planet, huh?

Next time you hear the argument of how implausable it is that our planet has everything it takes to sustain life, explain how we fit in squarely with the odds if God hadn't been there to fuck it up 10 billion times before he got to us.

Bob

* * * * * *


Subject: About this Baron fellow

Baron: "I've broken every single commandment dozens of times. Some of them have been broken hundreds."

Alright, I'll overlook the fact that he's got to be a serious dick for bearing false witness so many times, and it's just plain indecisive to make so many false idols and worship so many gods other than Yahweh, but I've got to draw the line at the killings. I mean, this guy has murdered dozens, perhaps even hundreds, of people?

Sure, Jebus forgives him, but the federal and state governments aren't usually so lenient (and in the case of a serial killer, this seems justified). Should some law enforcement agency be notifed?

It's a shame the exchange is email, because I bet he couldn't actually name the 10 Commandments withouth looking them up :)

Ben

* * * * * *


Hi Bob,

The whole exchange with Baron reminded me of a comment on BoingBoing a few months ago. It was on a post about a Ben Stein Interview which brought up a heated debate. One poster, Xopher, posted this comment when someone else asked...
"Do you want to stand before a Holy God and say to Him 'I thought you were lying?'"

His response...

No, not at all. I would say

"I didn't trust the men who told me this book was Your Word, because I found them to be unreliable in other ways: greedy and selfish and hungry for power in many cases, and narrow and foolish in others.

"I did not trust them, because they defended the oppression of women.

"I did not trust them, because they defended the supremacy of the so-called White Race, while claiming that Your Word and Your love was for everyone.

"I did not trust them because they told me that you made me just as I am, and yet that the way I was made was evil because my desire is for men rather than for women. I did not trust them because they told me that I was made by a Loving God who nevertheless wants me to suffer torment and loneliness all my life, and I would not believe that You would do such a thing as to make me for that purpose.

"I did not trust that the text was Your Word when it came to the facts of Creation, because before it existed you gave us a truer Word, which is Nature itself, and the text contradicts what we can observe.

"I did not believe that this text was Your Word as to matters of fact, because it contradicts itself, and that would make You a liar.

"I did not trust that this text was Your Word, because as plainly read in the text You lied to Adam and Eve, while the Serpent told the truth, and You would not declare Yourself to be a liar.

"I did not trust that this text was Your Word, because You made us humans with minds and senses and logic and other great gifts, and not to use them would be shameful; yet those who defend the text as Your Word (as to matters of fact) claim that You created all the physical evidence we've found, from the stratified fossils, yea even to the Cosmic Background Radiation, as devices to fool and deceive us, and I would not believe You were such a Deceiver.

"If I should have trusted these dishonest and wicked men (and some women); if I should have denied my own senses in favor of scripture; if I should have trusted translations that I knew to be false; if You are indeed so cruel as to make me to suffer, and deny me partnership and love my whole life long; if You are such a Deceiver as to demand that we humans forego the use of our minds and senses which you gave us--then do with me what you will, false and evil god, for I would rather spend eternity in Hell with other good people than one minute in Heaven with you."
Xopher - BoingBoing 5/1/08

Kinda wanted to make a poster for my wall...

Wererat

“Are you a christian?”

Subject: question for ya, Bob

Are you a christian?

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

No. Why do you ask?

Bob

“Have you ever known a person who claims to be something but doesn't get what that thing is all about?”

Well, your website (http://www.jesusdressup.com/) is really mocking Jesus. However, there are some folks today who would call themselves christian and not understand that an entire website devoted to Jesus can still be a bad thing.

Have you ever known a person who claims to be something but doesn't get what that thing is all about?

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

Oh, I understand. Yeah, all's cool then, because I'm not a Christian so it's not a bad thing when I do it.

Claims to be one thing but doesn't get what that thing is all about? Not sure what you mean? Do you mean like claiming to be a Christian but not understanding that it's all about having a heaven while others burn? Is that what you mean?

Thank you for all the questions! They're really intriguing!
Bob

“Sounds like you think that a punishment that doesn't end is harsh and unwarranted.
Would that be accurate?”

What I mean is this: Let's say you were a brand new christian and didn't really understand the major aspects of the faith. You might think, "I'll create an entire website to my Savior!" Since you don't understand the power and holiness of Jesus, you would think it was alright to play dress-up with him.

As to your quote: "claiming to be a Christian but not understanding that it's all about having a heaven while others burn?"

Sounds like you think that a punishment that doesn't end is harsh and unwarranted.
Would that be accurate?

Eternal punishment is a horrific thought. Personally, I wouldn't wish that
on my worst enemy.

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

Yes, I think I can safely say, without being at all controversial or outside the box that a punishment which doesn't end is harsh and unwarranted. It doesn't allow for one to learn from their mistakes, and I don't think one person can actually enjoy paradise while knowing others from earth suffer eternally. It's not a working concept. It's not even a healthy concept. And I suppose that's what I think it means to claim to be a Christian but not actually understand what it's all about.

I agree with you on that 100%. Even my worst enemy doesn't deserve it. You seem to be a perfect example of calling yourself one thing but not understanding it.

Bob

“God's law (the Ten Commandments) is written on the hearts of every human being”

ok, first of all, let me say that i am thoroughly enjoying this back and forth.

now, what the Bible says is that the evidence of God is clearly seen in creation. without a creator, there could be no creation. just like without a builder, there could be no building. or, without a painter, there could be no painting.

it also says that God's law (the Ten Commandments) is written on the hearts of every human being ever created. popular culture calls this the conscience. "con" is with and "science" is knowledge. ultimately when we do something wrong we are doing it "with the knowledge" that it's wrong.

the second chance that you're speaking of is right there. we know there's a creator and that we've sinned against him by breaking his law. in fact, to be totally honest, i've had more second chances than i could count. God has been very merciful in this way.

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

Unfortunately your argument comes completely unhinged when you no longer refer to everything as creation. The world and the universe is not a creation, therefore it needs no creator. There are many things that can happen without a creator. For instance, a tree grows upward without anybody building it with a hammer and nails. A volcano can erupt and spew lava down the side of a mountain and change an entire landscape without any artist or construction worker steering any cranes. You are too quick to simply assume everything you see has an intelligent hand responsible for its existence. I would hope that before you completely submit your mind to the authors of this book you'd take into account that it was written by men who saw a sunrise and guessed it was hanging there by puppet strings, and waves came from when the puppeteer stirred the oceans with his cane.

The Ten Commandments are written on our hearts? Thou shalt not make a graven image is written on my heart (Commandment 2)? Where?? Thou shalt not take the name of God in vain is written on our hearts (Commandment 3)??? You're suggesting that a child who's never heard of the Bible or Jesus or God knows deep down about the sabbath day and to keep it holy (Commandment 4)??? Baron, go to a child and ask him/her if they know which day is the sabbath and what they're supposed to do with it. YOUR BOOK WAS WRITTEN BY MEN! NOT GOD!!

I mean, you did of course presume for a second that the book wasn't written by the inventor of the universe first, right? Please tell me about the skeptical studies you did to research the Bible's authenticity before you started bowing to its "genius." I'd be curious to know more about those.

Bob

“I will happily answer any questions you have regarding the authenticity of the Bible.”

Bob, I will happily answer any questions you have regarding the authenticity of the Bible. I will answer them honestly and with verifiable details. However, for every question of yours that I answer, will you agree to honestly answer a question of my own directed to you?

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

Absolutely.

Bob

“What question(s) do you
have about the authenticity of the Bible?”

Alright. Then let's begin and you may go first. What question(s) do you
have about the authenticity of the Bible?

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

Here's a good one- Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave
with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is
not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his
property."

These are commands from God. The god you bow to. Was he serious, or just being sarcastic?
Because that don't seem right. Ya know?

Bob

“Why does God appear to allow slaveowners to beat their slaves even to the point that it takes them a full day or two to recover and there still be no punishment for the slave owner?”

Just so I'm clear, it seems that you're asking basically two questions.
1. Why does God appear to allow slavery?
2. Why does God appear to allow slaveowners to beat their slaves even to the
point that it takes them a full day or two to recover and there still be no punishment for the slave owner?

So, if those were indeed your questions, then check out this website:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-slavery.html

The page isn't very long and I think it will answer your questions well.
But, you gotta read the whole page. The best answer to your questions lie in the
fourth paragraph.

Here's my first question to you: Have you ever told a lie? What word is used to describe someone who tells lies?

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

People sold themselves as slaves??! In Lev 25:44-46 it specifically says that "you may buy slaves from the strangers and their families around you!" It isn't about slave owners possibly being racist or the oppression of a minority. It's about using human beings like farm equipment! It's about man's inhumanity towards man, and your god condones it! You've no right to say your book is perfect, and its commandments are written across our hearts when its messages can be so absolutely obscene.

Baron, if these things don't raise red flags for you as to your book's flawlessness then you're deliberately shielding your eyes from that which you know is wrong. And it's precisely this sort of moral insight and shielding of eyes that did nothing to help put an end to slavery. Sickening.

Baron, someone who's told a lie is called "someone who's told a lie" and that's it. It's not black & white, one word label, across the board. Otherwise one would always be a liar and there's no use in anyone trying to change their behavior. Stop telling everyone "Once a liar always a liar." That does nothing to help people change.

Bob

“Yes, people did choose to sell themselves as slaves to pay off a debt. That is one scenario.”

I never said that the people of which the Bible speaks are flawless. Only that the book, as a historical narrative - and God's plan for salvation, is flawless.

Yes, people did choose to sell themselves as slaves to pay off a debt. That is one scenario. Another scenario is when a slave was sold/purchased from one owner to another.

Actually, William Wilberforce, a christian, is the one who did so much to abolish the slave industry. In addition to that he helped to introduce christianity to India.

Still, God is more concerned with opening the eyes of people so that they recognize their need for a savior.

For example: A person who hasn't heard that "all liars will have their part in the lake of fire." Revelation 21:8.

As for "deliberately shielding my eyes from the obvious." Take a look at Romans 1:18-25. This describes you, does it not?

Now, I have answered your question. Yet, you still have not answered mine. My gut tells me it's safe to assume that you've broken the ninth commandment: "Thou shalt not lie."

Since you haven't actually asked another question, as was your right, I will proceed with question #2. Have you ever stolen anything? Irrespective of its value or size. What is someone called who steals things?

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

What you're saying is that God's Commandments are just a narrative of how things were going in those days and we're not to take them literally, even if both God and Jesus tell us to? Is that what you're seriously suggesting here? That's my first question.

My second question is can you imagine how hard you'd have to be beaten so that it would take one or two days for you to get up again? I mean, just try and imagine yourself being beat with a belt, or a whip, or a big stick so hard that you fall to the ground and can't get up. And the next day you still can't get up because the beating was so terrible, hit on the back, head and legs because you weren't working up to your owner's expectations. That's pretty fucking brutal, and it's worth mentioning again that your god is the one who provided these instructions on just how hard one's allowed to pulverize a slave without it being a sin.

Am I right when you and that brilliant website (gotquestions.org) explain how slavery was a way for people to pay off debts and how even "doctors, lawyers, and even politicians" were slaves that you're saying it was because they were too poor to pay off their debts so it's reasonable to accept their situation as beaten and abused slaves, sometimes even to the point of death? They were poor people being beaten by their owners under God's command and you're telling me the Bible & God's plan is flawless?

Baron, your beliefs are making you say very disturbing things. You're condoning the beating of slaves who were too poor to pay their debts. You're trying to explain it as an okay thing to do. It's just this sort of reasoning that kept slavery legal here in the United States for as long as it did. You're actually toying with their mindset! How's that feel? If only you could understand how offensive the words you're saying against humanity are.

I'm trying to show you that your book was written by men, and not a god. Men are the ones who wanted to keep their slaves, that's why they wrote it in there. It IS a flawed book, which nullifies other verses you're sending me (Rev 21:8). Hell, it's only trivial historical narrative, right?

And I have answered your question. I have told a lie and I have stolen just like everybody else on planet earth, which includes the men who wrote the bible. Correct?

Bob

“The only way to [blaspheme the Holy Spirit] is to witness a miracle performed by Jesus and attribute it to satan.”

Hey, Bob! -
I get the feeling you're still stuck on your first question. But, since you have not yet asked another question regarding the Bible's authenticity, I will proceed with question #3.

Have you ever taken the Lord's name in vain?

Yes, sir. You have. In fact, more than that, you have attempted to blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

There's good news and bad news for you, Bob. According to what I've studied, anyone alive today cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The only way to do this is to witness a miracle performed by Jesus and attribute it to satan. So, there is yet no sin that can be committed today that God is not able to forgive. For that, I praise His holy name. That is wonderful news.

Here's the bad news: Right now, the Righteous Judge of all mankind sees you, Bob Smith, as a lying, blasphemous thief.

If He were to judge you by the ten commandments on your day of judgment, would
He find you innocent or guilty?

Let's say He found you to be guilty. Would that mean heaven or hell?

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

Believe the book that allows enslaving the poor and slave beatings to the point where the slaves can't get up? Doesn't sound like a trustworthy, righteous judge to me. Sounds more like writings from men who wanted to keep slaves. Men who were also liars, right? Liars who wrote down their ideas about what it takes to go to heaven or hell? Lairs who wrote about a Holy Spirit and how it can be blasphemed? Liars who said they were telling the absolute truth about the righteous judge in the sky? Liars who claimed there's a righteous judge in the sky?

Baron, I have asked another question regarding the Bible's authenticity that you haven't answered. Why aren't you answering the question about whether or not the men who wrote the Bible were also liars? That seems like an extremely urgent and important question that needs to be answered! Don't you think?

So were they liars? I mean, we all are, right? So they were too. Correct?
Hello?
Baron?
You there?

Bob

You can stand in the street screaming 'I don't believe in tractor trailers!' But, whether or not you believe in them, you will one day get hit by one.

You're wanting me to answer my own questions? Sure. I've known the answer to them for years. I still cringe when I consider my past, but I will not attempt to hide the truth from you.

1. If God judges me by the ten commandments on my day of judgment, would I be innocent or guilty? GUILTY. I've broken every single commandment dozens of times. Some of them have been broken hundreds. Yikes. Talk about a depraved sinner.

2. Since I'm guilty, would that mean heaven or hell? HELL! I broke the law and the fine must be paid.

Whether or not you will ever admit it openly, your day of judgment will go very similar to mine. The books will be opened and everything you've ever done or thought will be laid bare before the piercing eyes of The Lord.

Make no mistake about it. You will be judged and you will be found guilty.

Look at it like this: If I die and YOU'RE right, no problem. I'll rot in the ground until they need the land in which I'm buried in order to build a shopping mall.

If you die and I'M right, BIG PROBLEM. You can stand in the street screaming "I don't believe in tractor trailers!" But, whether or not you believe in them, you will one day get hit by one.

Instead, why not pay attention to the guy hollering to you from the side of the road? I'm shouting at you, saying "Hey, buddy! You're in danger! You need to get out of the road pronto!"

Alright. It's 2:30 AM and I'm sleepy. Goodnight, Bob.

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

It's so intriguing to me that you refuse to answer whether or not the men who wrote the bible, and the men who teach the bible were/are liars or not. Were they sin free or were they liars? And you will not respond! Haha!

Do you not see how the entire basis for all your arguments and all of your beliefs hinge on the authors of the bible? And you're so hooked on everyone (except Jesus) being liars and thieves and such, you'd think the answer to my question would be quite simple and we could move on. But you're avoiding the question like the plague! Like your eyes blur over each time I type it into an email. Emails you're asking me to ask you questions in!

Never fear, Baron. Your fear of the topic speaks volumes, and does not bode well at all for the authenticity of the book you're so entranced by. A book that permits you to enslave poor people and beat them with a rod.

Bob

“When the people who wrote the Bible were not being used specifically by God for the task of writing Scripture, they certainly did things that were not pleasing to God. However, when God inspired them to write Scripture, they allowed themselves to be in the hand of God”

Are you sure about that, Bob? I've mentioned several times that every person, including co-authors of the Bible are fallen and sinful. That includes telling lies.

Perhaps you misunderstood my analogy of the pen. When I said that the pen can do things like fall off a table, I was describing how the pen can do things for which it was not intended. However, when the pen is in the hand of an artist, the pen creates art.

When the people who wrote the Bible were not being used specifically by God for the task of writing Scripture, they certainly did things that were not pleasing to God. However, when God inspired them to write Scripture, they allowed themselves to be in the hand of God and they did what He wanted. Make sense?

Now, can you give me an honest answer regarding your judgment day?
Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAH HAHAHA!!!!!!!
So what you're saying is that when those men wrote the Bible they also assured everybody in their writings that even though they're sinners like everybody else there's just this one time when they were writing about how God permits them to keep their slaves and use beatings to discipline them they were "without lies or misgivings?"

Are these the same men who wrote about keeping sex slavery a blessed, sinless act as well by Order Of The God Of The Universe (Exo. 21:7-11)? They were being the "pencils of an artist named God" when they wrote how people can sell their daughters to them for sex with God's permission? Oh that's fantastic!!! And you're not the least bit suspicious of that?!?! That's what so absolutely priceless about this to me. It couldn't be any more obviously written by greedy, horny old men, but you're so invested in it all being real you deny these injustices to humanity! You're being both totally hilarious and totally terrifying!!

No, Baron. I will not be judged by this made-up character these men who wrote the bible invented so they could keep slaves to have sex with and do their work for them. It's so obviously make-believe stories that don't even make sense. You can have a heaven while others burn for doubting God would condone slavery? No. There is no heaven while your brothers and sisters from earth suffer eternally. Again, it's another man made fantasy-land where their enemies get punished while they're rewarded, endlessly. Such greedy greedy authors they were.

You should be embarrassed and ashamed about the injustices you permit so your eternal heaven won't be taken away.

Bob

If you decide one day to allow God to soften your hardened heart, then I will be here ready to welcome you into christian fellowship.

I'm very sorry to hear your thoughts on the topic, Bob. If you decide one day to allow God to soften your hardened heart, then I will be here ready to welcome you into christian fellowship. I'll continue to pray for you, Bob.

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

A softened heart believes in a god who'd permit sex slavery and slave beatings? The enslavement of poor men & women for those with money to brutally beat? A softened heart blindly accepts that the men who wrote those words were the pencils God? A softened heart is so arrogant as to think he can speak for God and the certainty of an afterlife?

In case you're not aware it's the hardened heart which allows for such inhumanity
and can imagine a paradise for himself while your brothers and sisters from earth
burn forevermore. Only a hardened heart can comprehend eternal paradise while others suffer forever.

That's the hardened heart, Baron. This "Fellowship of the Christians" is absolutely terrifying.

Bob

A good judge won't let a criminal off the hook in a civil court. The good civil judge will punish the guilty.

No true christian wants anyone to spend an eternity in hell. I certainly don't want you to end up there. That's precisely why I've been conversing with you the past few weeks.

I don't want that and God certainly doesn't want that. Jesus was sent to seek and save that which is lost. It's only when someone is unrepentant do they end up in hell.

God is a good and righteous judge. A good judge won't let a criminal off the hook in a civil court. The good civil judge will punish the guilty. It's the same way with God. Because of His righteousness, He must punish the guilty.

Baron
eidsonbaron@yahoo.com

A good and righteous civil judge wouldn't let someone else come in and pay the
fines so the criminals can go free. Your analogy is broken.

#1 People are in hell.
#2 You'll have an eternal paradise.
#3 You can have an eternal paradise while people are in hell?
You hardened hearted monster.

A good judge would also not let an innocent pay the price for the guilty.
Bob

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