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Subject: Laughter

I foolishly followed a link from F.S.T.D.T. last night, and ended up awake at 2 AM laughing my head off at the hate mail section of your site.

I guess I thought it was just because it was late at night, but sitting here now, I nearly spat soda all over my computer with this line:

 "Do you actually think I care whether or not you apologize, or if there's an apology pending, or retracted, or collecting interest, or whatever?"

I've been an ex-Christian for a few months now, and I've been reading debate after commentary after proof and whatnot over the whole Christianity thing. It's so obvious to me in hindsight that it's not true, but I keep digging and studying and preparing for the inevitable argument I'll have with the Christians around me someday. I want to know and be able to explain what it is that makes it so false.

It's frustrating.

For every sensible thing you could say, there's always some weird
logic-proof retort they have. "Where did the dinosaurs come from?"
"They were in the garden of Eden." "What about the Egyptians?"
"They're descended from Noah." Stuff like that.

So it's refreshing-- and *addicting*-- to read your irreverent responses. It's an excellent reminder to me: Just don't take it seriously. (But geez, doesn't that piss them off?)



“recently my father in law was killed, 9 months later my mum in law died, 3 days later I lost my dad”

hullo bob
was looking at your Jesus dress up site
it appears you are very talented and obviously well educated
But wisdom and intelligence are worlds apart
Jesus is a real person not some Bible figment made up fairytale to get people happy
What you mock thru your site we as Christians hold sacred
Whats amazing is though you mock Jesus buit he still loves you
When he was on that cross he said father forgive them cause they dont know what they are doing
and he meant people like you bob who crucify him in a different way
the next time you look at that site know that he is looking at you
you know about Jesus but you dont know Jesus
We live out on the country and recently my father in law was killed accidentailly crossing the road
9 months later my mum in law died if a heart attack and 3 days later I lost my own dad also of a heart attack
it has turned our lives upside down as you can imagine
the difference is bob between you and I is a certain hope I have that you dont
of the sure return of Jesus and knowing that because of that we will see them again
the masters way is a wonderful way and when you come to know Jesus its like the lites coming on
We dont know what tomorrow holds we only know that God holds tomorrow
I hope and pray you will seek the real Jesus
he is calling you bob and waiting for you to answer
bless you my friend
Allan Cameron
new zealand

Yes, but Allan, he just sounds so so much like "some Bible figment made up fairytale to get people happy."

I too had a family member die last month, and right in front of the deceased's weeping daughters the pastor had no problem telling them their father could quite possibly be in hell because he had never shared with anyone whether or not he'd accepted Christ into his heart. So don't give me any of that "I have hope you could never have" hogwash. If it's "hope" you're selling then "made up fairytale to get people happy" is exactly what it is.
Grieving lost loved ones is part of life. Imagining that we live forever bypasses that process thus skipping over that essential lesson. 

I have no problem with you believing whatever it is you want to believe, but expecting everyone else to get on board is crossing a line. You don't know either, but you're there claiming you do without addressing the consequences of your claim.

I understand you've been through a lot, but parading your dead loved ones in front of me has zero effect. Believing that there are people suffering forever in hell while you and your loved ones get paradise for the nothing act of believing a story isn't a good thing. It's a bad thing. And it's your responsibility as an adult to address your bad things, especially when they affect others.

Keep your damnation of others to yourself and work on that problem. It's your responsibility as a grown man.

A month and a half later...
“if there is no God then you and I and the rest of humanity have the same ultimate destination”

hi bob 
I  really appreciate 

you taking the time to reply and share your views with me

the comments made by the pastor  certainly seemed a bit insensitive if there is a heaven and a hell and a God then its God who decides not man
My father was not a believer ..my mother and father in law were
if there is no God then you and I and the rest of humanity have the same ultimate destination 
Have you ever considered the possibility you could be wrong and that there is a Jesus
he obviously existed as many non bible scholars such as Josephus the Jewish/Roman scribe has written not only about him but his ministry
In fact most scholars accept the fact that he did exist
Josephus lived at the same time as Jesus
The big question then is did he rise from the dead cause if he did so will we
What on earth are we here for if God did not place us upon this earth
I respect your views Bob even though I disagree with them
thanx again for taking the time to respond
If you can maybe have a look at a miracle and let me now what you think this comes in the impossible category: Ken Gaub’s Phone Call: Best. Story. Ever.
kind regrds
have a great day
Allan Cameron
new zealand

"If there is no God then you and I and the rest of humanity have the same ultimate destination."

I couldn't have put it more reasonably, fairly & believably. If there were no god we'd all be destined to the same place when we die. And to you that statement sounds wrong? Unfair? Unreasonable? Like certain ones of us are definitely deserving of more than others. In North Korea where the name "Jesus Christ" isn't even known, those millions clearly deserve a less impressive afterlife than say, you, your mother and father-in-law.

You really put it so so beautifully it's hard for me to change the topic to discuss Josephus' accounts of Jesus which weren't impressive enough to convert him from Judaism. The question Allan, isn't whether or not Jesus existed. It's whether or not he was a god. And I have no problem observing the question with a level head and responding "probably not." There are hundreds of reasons to disbelieve, but none so eloquently put as your "If he wasn't then we all are destined to the same place." Again, such a gorgeous picture-perfect outcome that makes our fellow humans seem undeniably equal in value. The empathy that statement promotes should make us wish for no gods at all. No master in the sky separating us into winners & losers, blessed & cursed, you guys against those guys.

The further we can get towards equalizing the way we look at people different than us is the whole point! Brilliant evidence god's pretend.

Thank you Allan.

PS. The God of the Universe chose Ken Gaub. That's his story in a nutshell.
I've had too many experiences with made up, embellished self-promoting "miracle tales" to get those goosebumps of awe. You need to keep a handle on that urge you've got to believe people's "Chosen One" stories. It's a terribly dangerous wild card to hand a child. Especially one who's making a career off it.

“if Ken Gaubs story is true.....what then!!!!!!!!!!”

thanx bob 
you certainly make some very valid points
true Ken Gaub does have a career in ministry
however hopefully that doesnt make him tell big tales to further his cause
you may or may not choose to read the attached story but it too is true

One question 
if Ken Gaubs story is true.....what then!!!!!!!!!! what would you say?
what if there is an afterlife? 
I have plenty of miracles in my own life and at the end of the day you cant put everything down to chance
when Gods hand is so evident cause miracles as we know do occur
I wish you well Bob and hope you might just consider Jesus could be the answer 

check out this one
Julie Papievis: To Heaven and Back
many amazing stories like this on the 700 club website
Allan Cameron

One month later...
“While ago our ride on lawn mower broke down... my son suggested we pray and... yep started up straitway”

havent heard from ya!!!
I have a little business we named after my wife and I (A&J)
I put it up for sale and got no response despite hundreds of people looking at it 
last week I pleaded with God to send a buyer
the very next day I had a response from a couple who are very interested
there initails just happen to be the same as ours A & J
While ago our ride on lawn mower broke down and would not go
after a fruitless 40 minutes of waiting /trying etc still no go
my son suggested we pray and you can of course easily guess what happened
yep started up straitway
The day my mum in law passed away
we read our morning scripture
from a book which has one reading for each day of the year
the scripture that day just happened to be the same one that hangs in a large frame
over mum in laws doorway
OK they are little things
The skeptic  says its all coincidence
the believer chooses to see Gods hand at work
Have a great day Bob 
Hope things are going really well for you
you certainly are an interesting person and I enjoy our little discussions
Allan Cameron

Had you ever thought how odd it is the God of the Universe cares about whether or not your lawnmower starts but not the thousands of praying people whose lives are wiped out by a hurricane? Or how much God's paying attention to the possible sale of your website, but a kid who gets hit by a car and dies while the parents pray for him is overlooked?

I'd like you to explain to me the excuses you use when prayer doesn't work and people don't get what they pray for. Was the starting of your lawnmower more important than the rescue of Jaycee Lee Dugard who was prayed for every day? Why aren't the ignored prayers evidence of his non existence? I can't follow your logic.

I had a great thing happen to me last week and prayed to no one about it! How about that? Coincidence? Why do Popes die when millions upon millions of people pray for him to live? How about telling me a story of something you prayed for that didn't happen? Tell me that story, or do those ones lack the drama and punch? Interesting the things we vividly remember and the things we put out of our minds, huh?

Your stories would be so interesting if prayers mostly came true. Unfortunately that's not the case at all.

A world without coincidences would be a very strange place to live indeed.

“I dont have answers”

thanx bob
yep you sure raise a good point and its an age old question and I dont have all those answers
good to hear you had a great thing happen to you though
why my father in law got accidentailly killed crossing the road and wht my mother in law died of a heart attack 9 months later them my dad also of a heart attack 3 days later I dont know.. why a little 4 year old at our church had multiple brain tumours and why a good friend of mine at 34 years old has Motor Neurone disease and only months left to live at best I dont know cause so far no miracle there
but then the Bible teacher at school had crippling Multiple sclerosis at 32 yrs old and was confined to a wheelchair is now back to full health
so maybe a miracle there
God wants our attention and many problems in our world that cause the innocent to suffer are caused by mans inhumanity to man
and selfishness..I believe that he cares about the little things in my life.Like starting a lawnmower..very insignicant but he knows about it
and when there are storms in my life he is right there with me in the middle of them..God doesnt always step in cause he allows us freedom of choice and often bad choices cause the misery to others and ourselves ...and one day we shall all stand before him to give account of our life and our choices  he doesnt force everyone to turn up at church cause he wants each of us to choose for ourselves. God knew we needed a saviour cause he knew we would mess up ..thats why he sent his son..the one that your website makes fun of Bob...
why does God choose to answer some prayers and allow a miracle to happen and then thousands died in floods etc again I dont know
cause I am not God and trying to understand God with our human minds is a bit of a challenge
He says My ways are not your ways and my thoughts are not your thoughts and that is so true
miracles do occurr and some prayers are answered and yes I have had plenty of disappointment from unanswered prayers
all I can say is God knows better than I do
I will be praying for you Bob and maye others are too that you might come to know the real Jesus
Have an awesome day and thanx for the reply I really enjoy our little email chats
kind regards
Allan Cameron

I like how low the standard for "a miracle" has gotten, down to a troublesome lawnmower starting, or you reading a random bible verse that matches one above your mom's bed the day she died, in a home that's probably riddled with bible verses on every wall. Things are a lot different than when seas parted, chariots flew through the sky, and entire graveyards of people crawled up from underground.
Now you and your wife selling a webpage counts.

I hope you can look at all these examples and see how trivial it is, and how silly you're sounding. 

Oh look, I just found a penny. It's a MIRACLE!!

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