Hate Mail

Paul, Saul, & Big Balls

Their letters are in yellow, whilst mine are in black & white.

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Hello. I'm a big fan of yours but I have a dilemma. I'm writing to you because I value your opinion.

First, I want to say that any time I'm in a conversation or debate about religion, I tell people about you, your website, and art. I think you're just about a genius, in my book. You are a very skilled writer and humorist (despite a few typos!). Love your hate mail ~ so very entertaining! You express what I and a majority of my friends feel with eloquence and killer wit. Thank you for 'doing what you do' so deliciously.

My dilemma is that I am reluctant to identify as an atheist. I am not afraid of judgment, disapproval, or have any residual guilt from a Catholic upbringing (believe it or not). You obviously don't know me - but FYI, I am no shrinking violet. Yet for some reason (hard for me to put my finger on it) I draw the line at proclaiming "DEFINITELY, yes. I am atheist. Hear me roar, etc."

What would you say to an agnostic, for lack of a better term? I rejected organized religion long ago, as a teen. (Wish the magical internets were available to me in the 80's!) Instead, much to the chagrin of my family, I took out every religious book from the public library and educated myself. I was seeking something better and found nothing that made solid sense. BTW, I'm somewhat more tolerant of paganism but that failed to entice me as well.

My issue, I think, is based upon something you have touched upon before, vs. the Christian & other zealots who write you. Of course, one cannot possibly claim to KNOW a purpose for humanity and the amazing world we share with a myriad of amazing creatures. How can anyone claim to know the purpose of life on earth or a god? Impossible. So then, how could anyone claim to know for 100% certainty that there is no purpose or 'godlike' higher intelligence? (Again, for lack of better terms.) I'm not talking some lame, patriarchal, bearded old man god. My imagination and intelligence takes me to places of a higher science that is beyond the knowledge of our relatively young human race. Something closer to laws of nature and high mathematics. Or... maybe I've been exposed to too much idealistic science fiction? HA! But seriously. How can anyone say 100% 'yes' or 100% 'no'?

So my question to you is: What do you say to an agnostic like me? Push me over the fence!

~ Thorne aka Lisa


Hey hey Lisa,
Your compliments are much appreciated today. I'm having one of those days where people I know are all coincidentally in agreement that today is the day to give me the brushoff. I was starting to wonder if photos with my finger up my nose finally went public.

Ugh! Yes, typos. Do you think most people forgive me for those? You've no idea how much I cringe when I reread my writing and happen across a glaring typo I've tapped out with my stupid fingers! I beat myself up even more when I know I've read the page several times beforehand and missed it. Anyhow, you can see my distress. Thank you for understanding. ;)

Which leads me to your next question. How can I be so sure there's no god when I can't even get "affect" and "effect" sorted out? Fact is, no one can be 100%. What's the saying? "Geniuses admit to not knowing. Idiots know it all." Something like that. And this year I'm turning 43 and finding it much easier to chill out on the absolutism speeches. I'm sure I've admitted to this before, but I'll say it again. Fresh out of Christianity my early years of atheism were fueled by anger and retaliation. I definitely see myself getting much more reasonable. But don't get me wrong. I consider myself an atheist. There may very well be a god out there, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING that I've seen, heard, smelled, tasted or touched has led me to believe it so. Every single attempt people have made to prove it has failed miserably. There has always been a more reasonable explanation. The fact that my brain wants so desperately aspects of it to be true only hurts its arguments even more. If there just wasn't so much to gain by having it all be true it'd be so much more believable. You know what I mean? That's where I'm at.

What's so funny is in this relaxation of my atheism I actually feel more honestly atheist. It's less about emotional reasons, and more just a part of every day life now.

I by no means think things are purposeless without god. In fact, because of it we have more purpose than ever! No different than when you move out from under your parent's roof your purposes increase. There's far more you need to get done, be responsible for, and the freedom to find your own solutions to happiness.

I don't think I have the words to push you over the edge. That'll happen on its own time at your own pace. When it does you'll see how silly it all was before that moment, and there's no turning back. At least not while the only voices to do the turning are mortal, earthbound humans.

Not sure if any of this answers your questions.
Let me know.
Bob

“Paul ...killed Christians and hated and scorned Christ followers. Then, Jesus came to him... and Paul really learned the severity of his sin.”

Subject: website

Hey Bob, I was really offended by your site, and how it mocks the Man God that died for your very sin of posting such a horrible website. I hope you realize He loves you, too much to keep u the same and ongoing with your site. Paul, a major missionary of the Bible, killed Christians and hated and scorned Christ followers. Then, Jesus came to him and said, "why are you going after my children (Christians)? Repent and follow me." And Paul prior-name Saul) did love and worship Jesus Christ and really learned the severity of his sin.

Why did you make your website? Why do you hate and mock God?

Erin Ruman

Dearest Erin,
First of all, thank you for your email. In these times there are far fewer defenders of God & Jesus on the internet than there were just a few years ago. So many people are caught up in their electronic distractions. Plus the voice of atheists have all but drowned out any remaining squeakings of religion on the World Wide Web. It's nice to see there's still people out there willing to stand for things like Jesus and God. That said, I think you are very very wrong. Regrettably so.

No one can die or be sacrificed for someone else's wrongs. Eluding that this is even remotely possible in any way shape or form is the highest form of injustice and unaccountability. Claiming that an innocent can absorb the penalty for the guilty, and it is moral and good, is perversed. This alone is deserving of a mocking dressup game. But this only addresses your first sentence.

A perfect example of the criminality and outright grotesqueness of absolving the guilty of crimes through the trivial act of believing it's already been accounted for by someone else, is Paul/Saul. Paul is said in the Bible to've been responsible for the death of hundreds, possibly thousands. He murdered people simply based on the god(s) they did or did not believe in. Not only were his catastrophic crimes against humanity forgiven, but he is a hero you think worth noting. A trumpeted figurehead to be exemplified. Imagine this in today's world. Someone with the same genocidal credentials, perhaps even responsible for murdering your own non believing loved ones, given complete immunity and placed at the top podium in a mega-church. How does that strike you? Is this truly deserving of glory in your eyes?

My feeling is that to pretend crimes and wrong-doings are disposed of at the asking is deeply, deeply disturbing. What you see on my site isn't a hatred of God. It's a hatred of an idea. It's the mockery of an absurd and chilling concept. I suppose it's my smack in the face to all who believe this worldview is there for the taking as an immediate painkiller for guilt and responsibility. It skips some of the most important steps necessary for moral growth.

Might I suggest that you order one of my bumper stickers for your automobile as a symbol of your own repentance from such a flawed concept? l think it'd be an impressive message for you to advertise. Much like your hero Paul/Saul, but for our team!

Again, thank you for at least trying to defend yourself no matter how wrong everyone online says you are.

Bob

“...probably many people would be hesitant to accept that genocide leader got saved”

Hey Bob,
Sorry for being rude toned in the first email a while ago..
 
Everyone is accountable for their own sin. We are all headed for hell by our human nature. That's why we are in desperate need of a Savior to save us. And then without the Holy Spirit to follow after a salvation/conversion then we can't stop sinning either.
 
Even if you don't believe in God or Jesus, if someone was killed is a horrific way, why have a website of them with dress up clothes retelling their death?
 
And, Jesus has risen, is alive and is in heaven on His throne! That's the real, current victory.. It shows He was and is perfect, and can be celebrated for conquering sin and death.. He died but was resurrected. Not like on an operating table where a heart beat stops and then starts again.. It was a supernatural happening where He received the first new body.
 
God chose me, and I am thankful He changed me from a blind, God-hating, perverse girl to His daughter who He is making perfect out of grace. I'm undeserving of heaven and relationship with Him, but He has grace.
 
About the Saul/megachurch analogy, probably many people would be hesitant to accept that genocide leader got saved (like how people doubted Paul at first). It's all about fruits and it was proven that Paul's life was clearly changed. He was sorry, He was called by God.
I've heard of people that killed their baby in a tribe in Africa (because of a tradition about twin births) but God saved. The mother didn't know she was sinning because she was trying to stay dedicated to her tribe customs. Missionaries came to the village and she got saved and was so sorry. Thus, she is free of that sin. Jesus came to free the captives. We are captive to sin without Him.
 
Just read the ESV Bible and check out Mars Hill Church online (with Mark Driscoll). I pray God saves you and begins a work in your heart and life to His glory and you can look back and laugh a little at all this.
 
There's so much more stuff that could be said but its a loaded conversation. So, keep searching.
Look at your life and see what's in your heart and know theres hope for a totally different and free way to live through Christ of grace, forgiving people and love. Dont look to the world to teach you. Look to heaven. Seeya

Erin Ruman

Darling Erin,
Do you know how happy it makes me to see someone illustrate my reasons to their own questions so eloquently? You ask why I'd have a dressup website of someone's horrific death, then follow that with "Jesus has risen, is alive, and up in heaven on his throne!"

I dressup this horrific "sacrifice" because it was no sacrifice at all. Just as you described. There was no loss for Jesus (or his father) if he rose up to be by his dad's side in paradise forever. Sacrifice, Erin, requires a loss of some sort. If no loss can be accounted for, there is no sacrifice. Thus, I am depicting a trivial event where no sacrifice took place. None that can be explained logically.

Hell, I'd even go so far as to suggest that Christians around the world would be wise to doubt if any payment at all has been made for their sins if no loss can be reasonably explained! I don't mean to terrify you with the reality that you all might ultimately be held accountable for your own wrongdoings, but it seems a very real possibility if you actually examine the payment plan.

And Erin, I would be extra cautious about assuming your sins have been sufficiently paid for if you'd still consider following a repentant ex- genocidal leader. To me that seems an awfully risky chance to be taking. How does one assess if someone is truly sorry, especially if you're dealing with a megalomaniac? I mean, if you accidentally make him your leader and you're wrong about his repentance, you'd be partially responsible for the next Jonestown, Branch Dividian or Manson Family! It's no coincidence that almost all the followers of those cults were raised in the beliefs such as yours. Doesn't that tell you something?

Then imagine you die and God says, "Sacrifice? What sacrifice? Jesus came straight to paradise afterwards. Didn't you do the math? Nothing's been paid for. Okay, so let's start with your list of sins and see what you've got to pay for YOURSELF!"

Seems to me an awful lot of assuming is going on here with hardly any emphasis on thought. I'm happy though to see you're still searching for answers. Keep searching. I'm happy to answer your questions. Look in your heart and really think about whether or not a repentant megalomaniac should really be promoted a second time to a leadership position. Don't look to what a megalomaniac says you should do. Develop the moral compass within yourself. That's what I do.

Bob



“I'm demanded whoever u are to delete the site or else i take legal action on u... And i'm dead serious”

subject:  Erase it

I'm a muslim and i happened to view ur so called 'dress up prophet muhammad' website... So, i'm demanded whoever u are to delete the site or else i take legal action on u... And i'm dead serious about it

King Hustler

Listen. I'll be honest with ya. We could go back and forth on this for several emails, but in the end I'm probably going to just leave it as is so at the very least everyone else can have a laugh. But I don't mind you and your friends hatin' on me. It was a really dickish thing for me to put online, I'll admit.

I hope that's cool and we can just agree to disagree.

Thanks for the letter. It's refreshing to see someone actually speak up for what's right, and good, and holy. But then when I searched your email address and found your profile on Naughty-net I couldn't help but take your request with an enormous grain of salt.

Thank you though.
Bob



“U will burn in hell”

Subject: Illuminati are not idle

good job. U will burn in hell, little man.

Przemek Melka

"People who claim to know things about the afterlife are usually always right."

Quote from Normal Bob
May 21, 2012


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